Logs from February 16, 2010 Meeting Can be found here as well
Started logging meeting in #ubuntu-women [15:00:45] <akgraner> who is here for the meeting today? [15:00:56] <czajkowski> PRESENT [15:01:04] <AlanBell> present [15:01:10] <hypa7ia> present [15:01:17] <MichelleQ> present [15:01:32] <maiatoday> present [15:02:16] <akk> present [15:02:27] * czajkowski is in 2 meetings for next while :( [15:02:28] <Pendulum> present [15:02:28] <melissawm> present (if i can participate, it's my first time :) [15:02:31] <dinda> present [15:02:51] <akgraner> give it just another minute for people to trickle in.. [15:02:55] <akgraner> Welcome everyone.. it's been a but exciting since the last meeting [15:02:58] <axolote> present [15:03:16] <akgraner> bit not but (forgive all typing fails today pls) :-) [15:03:29] * gchick waves [15:03:45] <akgraner> so 1st up [15:03:47] <akgraner> [TOPIC] Announce IRC Channel Voting Results [15:04:01] <akgraner> Option 3 - Social, Advice Option 3 is having 2 channels one logged and one not logged [15:04:02] <akgraner> * One channel is Ubuntu, technical, and project discussions. The other channel is for social discussions. [15:04:02] <akgraner> * The technical/project channel IS logged. [15:04:02] <akgraner> * The social channel is NOT logged. [15:04:26] <akgraner> was the decision based on the condorcet poll about the channel.. [15:04:52] <akgraner> I hope everyone has seen the announcement on the list and forum and had the opportunity to comment on the results [15:05:05] <czajkowski> hard to miss it :) thanks for organising it akgraner [15:05:37] <akgraner> czajkowski, thanks - which brings is to the next item if no one minds moving to it? [15:05:47] <hypa7ia> go for it [15:05:52] <akgraner> [TOPIC] Idea submissions for second IRC Channel [15:06:15] <akgraner> so far here are the suggestions I have noted [15:06:16] <akgraner> 0. uw-social, [15:06:16] <akgraner> 1. uw-nologs, [15:06:17] <akgraner> 2. uw-talk, [15:06:17] <akgraner> 3. uw-chat, (sounds a bit cheesy but for the sake of exploring alternatives...) [15:06:19] <akgraner> 4. uw-discuss, [15:06:19] <akgraner> 5. uw-all, (as in, all are welcome) [15:06:21] <akgraner> #ubuntu-women-nolog [15:06:23] <akgraner> #ubuntu-women-all [15:06:25] <akgraner> #ubuntu-women-project [15:06:50] <akgraner> also noting that some team members feel like -women should be the logged channel as well [15:07:00] <hypa7ia> can we take a quick poll on that? [15:07:27] <akgraner> hypa7ia, sure I was going to ask [15:07:54] <akgraner> who in attendance now would like the current channel to be the logged one? a simple +1 or -1 will work here [15:08:02] <hypa7ia> -1 [15:08:12] <hypa7ia> (would prefer -project to be logged) [15:08:25] <czajkowski> +1 [15:08:29] <Pendulum> +1 [15:08:32] <akk> -1 [15:08:33] <axolote> +1 [15:08:35] <maiatoday> -1 [15:08:37] <melissawm> -1 [15:08:49] <MichelleQ> =1 [15:08:56] <MichelleQ> +1 rather [15:09:19] <czajkowski> now for sake of argument down the line, can we vote on this here today in channel, as there seems to be a bit of confusion, when things get decided in here, then goes to mailing list ? [15:09:43] * hypa7ia isn't confused [15:09:48] <akgraner> we aren't deciding on it in here right now just polling those who are here [15:09:55] <akk> Sounds like we can't decide anyway -- dead even. [15:10:31] <dinda> I have no strong preference either way [15:11:19] <AlanBell> +1 [15:12:03] <maco2> #ubuntu-women-project logged and #u-w as unlogged social place is my prefrence [15:12:49] <czajkowski> vid raised a valid point on list, the logged channel can still be social chatter, if folks don't want their talk logged that;s fine [15:12:58] <czajkowski> we can offer the other channel for them [15:13:22] <akgraner> I have read the mailing list and talked to several people who have articulated both sides of the argument - I wanted to see what other people who have not said anything on the mailing list had to say today.. [15:13:26] <hypa7ia> i'd feel safer having most of the social space be the unlogged channel [15:13:41] <hypa7ia> as i simply don't like being social in logged channels [15:13:55] <maco2> itd be weird IMO to be chatting about something and say "oh i have a story that goes along with that, and id like to tell you, but can we change channels first?" [15:14:08] <hypa7ia> maco2: exctly [15:14:10] <MichelleQ> I have to agree with maco2 on that point [15:14:19] <hypa7ia> not so much weird but annoying [15:15:04] <MichelleQ> I'm afraid that could be misconstrued by someone reading the logs, as well [15:15:08] <akgraner> ok - I' [15:15:08] <maiatoday> probably easier to make sure the decision making discussions happen in the logged channel [15:15:11] <akgraner> oops [15:15:31] <hypa7ia> maiatoday: that's my thinking [15:16:11] <hypa7ia> and it lets those who just want to focus on project stuff have a channel that's primarily about project stuff [15:16:27] <hypa7ia> i mean, i'm sure some social conversations will happen there [15:16:32] <maco2> right, less digging through offtopic cruft to find the project stuff [15:16:38] <hypa7ia> maco2: exactly [15:16:46] <hypa7ia> will make the logs MUCH easier to follow [15:17:00] <akgraner> I think each channel regardless of purpose or logging will have a social aspect to it [15:17:42] <Pendulum> I think it's going to be disruptive to how the channel has been advertised if the project channel is the new channel [15:18:03] <hypa7ia> Pendulum: it's going to be disruptive either way :/ [15:18:08] <Pendulum> s/advertised/publicised [15:18:28] <akgraner> hypa7ia, I was going to say that as well - there will be a bit of a hick-up either way [15:19:07] <MichelleQ> for nothing more than consistency sake, though, it would make the most sense to leave this channel as the project channel, I think. [15:19:20] <Pendulum> MichelleQ: I agree [15:20:09] <czajkowski> my thinking is the project channel being logged is that it represents us. So -women has been the advertised and promoted channel. then again I'm sure either choice out there isn't going to please everyone [15:20:50] <Pendulum> I've always heard #ubuntu-women advertised as the Ubuntu Women Project channel, not a social channel [15:20:55] <AlanBell> in terms of an opinion on the name for channel #2 I would suggest that -chat -talk and possibly -social are troll magnet names [15:21:20] <hypa7ia> AlanBell: i think it's actually the *-women-* part that's the troll magnet :p [15:21:30] <Pendulum> and I think we'd have to go back and redo a lot of advertisement for the project if -women is the social channel [15:21:39] <AlanBell> maybe not -women then [15:21:45] <MichelleQ> how about something as simple as -UWC? [15:22:01] <hypa7ia> i like -discuss, fwiw [15:22:14] <AlanBell> how about #ubuntu-venus or something along those lines [15:22:17] <hypa7ia> /if/ we're going with logging this channel, which is still not my preference [15:22:39] <hypa7ia> #ubuntu-ladieeeeez [15:22:43] * hypa7ia kids [15:22:45] <Pendulum> AlanBell: that would confuse people [15:23:20] <akk> venus?? [15:23:39] <maco2_> akk: the "female" symbol with teh + thing is actally the sign for venus [15:23:54] <maco2_> akk: just as the "male" one with the arrow is actually the sign for, i think, mars [15:24:00] <akk> The sign stands for both, but the word doesn't ... [15:24:08] <maiatoday> hmmm venus makes me think of tennis players though ... [15:24:14] <akk> (except in icky stereotype-reinforcing books) [15:24:24] <MichelleQ> the local strip club makes reference to Venus in it's name. [15:24:36] <AlanBell> ok, lets forget I ever said that [15:24:43] <maco2_> i assume the goddess Venus has something to do with women (other than being one) but idk what [15:24:45] <hypa7ia> AlanBell: i wasn't at all saying we shouldn't use *women*, just that your thinking that whatever we end the channelname with will influence the troll populations might be a bit misguided :) [15:24:51] <akgraner> ok here's is what I would like to do.. since I don't think everyone is going to agree on this.. and you all tell me if you can think of a better solution? I will either just make the decision or I will meet with 4 people of opposing views and we can hash it out and come up with something together.. [15:25:21] <hypa7ia> akgraner: i don't think there /is/ a better solution [15:25:30] <hypa7ia> we've got a pretty limited set of options here [15:25:49] <MichelleQ> coin toss seems to be the most efficient way of determining which channel is logged [15:25:50] <axolote> @hypa7ia ladieeeeez, huh? LOL. :) I like the suffix -discuss. That it is quite clear, and hopefully a little discouraging to trolls. [15:25:53] <akgraner> hypa7ia, I am up for suggestions :-) [15:26:04] <hypa7ia> akgraner: i've already given several :) [15:26:12] <hypa7ia> axolote: i was kidding :) [15:26:26] <axolote> i know. it was funny. :) [15:26:33] <hypa7ia> MichelleQ: haha, yesss [15:26:53] <MichelleQ> our options are one or the other, and there's no room for bias in a coin toss. [15:27:07] <hypa7ia> i'd suggest we see if there's a consensus on one of the #u-w-* names, and then vote on the following: [15:27:08] <akk> -discuss is awfully long ... but given that it has #ubuntu-women before it, it's long since disappeared off the tab anyway. [15:27:17] <hypa7ia> akk: lol [15:27:32] * akk generally has 2-3 tags labeled "#ubuntu-.." and has to remember them by position [15:27:40] <akk> tabs [15:27:44] <hypa7ia> 1) unlogged #uw, logged #uw-project [15:27:54] <hypa7ia> 2) logged #uw, unlogged #uw-something [15:28:11] <hypa7ia> or akgraner just decides :) [15:28:51] <akgraner> hypa7ia, I prefer 1 or 2 :-) (for the record) [15:28:54] <dinda> akgraner: what is your preference btw? on which channel is logged [15:29:33] <hypa7ia> akgraner: of the suggestions for names, or the two options i just suggested? [15:29:34] <akgraner> my preference is -women unlogged and uw-project or something logged (but that is just me) [15:30:21] <MichelleQ> at risk of losing my head - what if we scrapped this channel altogether and started 2 new? [15:30:31] * MichelleQ ducks [15:30:33] <akgraner> and that decision is based on the conversations (many of them) and the mailing list suggestions as well as talking to women in other open source groups [15:30:37] <hypa7ia> MichelleQ: nooooooo [15:30:53] <hypa7ia> by which i mean good suggestion, but i think we have some solid options already [15:31:02] <dinda> MichelleQ: lol - i think you'll lose your head on that suggestion ;) [15:31:02] <MichelleQ> just throwing it out there [15:31:06] <MichelleQ> probably [15:31:16] <MichelleQ> I'm not so terribly attached to it, at any rate [15:31:16] * AlanBell votes for akgraner just decides [15:31:30] * MichelleQ will second AlanBell [15:31:38] <dinda> ok, so just trying to get this clear in my head - would having this channel logged help with trolls? [15:31:52] <dinda> or would having the new channel logged help more? [15:31:54] <hypa7ia> dinda: i think it will make them worse [15:32:24] <hypa7ia> dinda: i think the issue is more with being able to better communicate with the rest of the team [15:32:36] <akgraner> dinda, I am not sure logging will help a great deal tbh [15:32:36] <hypa7ia> well i don't think that's the /real/ issue but i'm not going to start in on that [15:32:57] <akgraner> the issue was that people were not able to see important project discussions [15:33:39] <dinda> akgraner: ok - that makes some sense but will logging everything vs just logging meetings solve that? [15:34:35] <dinda> aren;t the meetings the only 'official' project discussions? [15:34:51] <akgraner> all the project discussions will happen in the logged channel.. so that in itself should give a "paper trail" of those discussions and give people who can't be on IRC all the time a reference to what is being talking about re the project [15:34:51] <dinda> the rest is all casual discussion [15:34:58] <melissawm> dinda: the problem with that is that not everybody will know when the channel is being logged or not... [15:35:01] <akgraner> dinda, not always [15:35:07] <Pendulum> dinda: plenty of important discussion happens when meetings aren't happening [15:35:22] <akk> It's probably unrealistic to expect that ALL project discussions will happen in the logged channel. [15:35:26] <Pendulum> ideas get thrown around and what happened in meetings get discussed, etc. [15:35:36] <hypa7ia> akk: of course, but that's better than none :) [15:35:38] <dinda> Pendulum: but are those considered official? they seem more accidental for whoever happens to be here [15:35:49] <akgraner> but sometimes it's easier to move a project discussion than a personal discussion.. [15:35:55] <hypa7ia> dinda: they aren't necessarily decision-making discussions [15:36:26] <AlanBell> dinda: for a specific example all the stuff done around the analysis of the membership demographics was done outside of meetings [15:36:31] <maiatoday> less emotions involved with moving project discussions? [15:36:39] <hypa7ia> maiatoday: yeah [15:36:42] <dinda> maiatoday: I think so [15:38:05] <akgraner> not to end this discussion but we have about 20 mins left in the meeting.. and a couple more items.. so unless someone has an overwhelming opposition to me just making the decision and setting up the new channel can we move on? [15:38:16] * hypa7ia is happy with that [15:38:19] <dinda> +1 [15:38:21] <MichelleQ> no objection here [15:38:32] <melissawm> ok [15:38:43] <akk> +1 [15:38:55] <elky> what's this vote for? [15:39:12] <akk> elky: akgraner choosing one and creating the channel so we can move on. [15:39:18] * maiatoday happy for akgraner to choose [15:39:48] <elky> +1 [15:39:56] <AlanBell> +1 [15:40:27] <Pendulum> +1 [15:41:10] <akgraner> [ACTION] akgraner to make decision on choosing and setting up new IRC channel [15:41:20] <czajkowski> -1 [15:41:24] <czajkowski> bah damn lag [15:41:41] * Mamarok is late in the meeting and didn't follow all the discussion, abstention [15:41:58] <akgraner> [ACTION] akgraner to set email list when the new channel is in place this week [15:42:09] <highvoltage> is this a meeting? [15:42:13] <czajkowski> highvoltage: yes [15:42:24] <hypa7ia> highvoltage: MootBot in use generally means yes :) [15:42:37] <highvoltage> oh I didn't see it on the fridge schedule [15:42:40] <akgraner> [TOPIC] International Women's Day Competition [15:42:40] <akgraner> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-women/2010-January/002406.html [15:42:45] <mhall119|work> I've been keeping him busy today [15:43:08] <akgraner> If you or someone you know hasn't entered the competition pls remind them to do so [15:43:17] * MichelleQ adds to to-do list [15:43:29] <czajkowski> highvoltage: it's missing from fridge [15:43:35] <akgraner> submission for the competition ends on the Feb 22 [15:43:36] <highvoltage> czajkowski: I see! [15:44:22] <akgraner> so blog and nudge those women who use ubuntu and haven't entered yet to do so [15:44:39] <akgraner> all female members of the team can enter [15:44:50] * hypa7ia will blag [15:45:27] <akgraner> elky, how many people last count had entered? last I checked there was 8 or so... we really need more women to enter [15:45:50] <elky> akgraner, i'm not logged in to the account now, getting ready for work, so not a good time [15:46:18] <akgraner> ok no worries ... just thought you might know off the top of your head :-) [15:46:19] <elky> but last i saw it was about that, yeah [15:47:23] <akgraner> ok so folks see we need more entries... there are more than 8 female members on the team so lets see those submissions.. check out the link above enter :-) please! [15:48:02] <akgraner> any questions on that before we move on? [15:48:09] <MichelleQ> nope [15:48:11] <hypa7ia> akgraner: a very important 1 [15:48:18] <hypa7ia> what are the prizes again? [15:48:22] * hypa7ia grins [15:48:39] <akgraner> ahh ok :-) yep that is important.. [15:48:44] <akgraner> ubuntu backpack [15:48:50] <hypa7ia> ooo [15:49:03] * elky holds up a pic of a huge pile of stuff. [15:49:07] <elky> this huge pile of stuff. [15:49:18] <akgraner> a subscription to either Ubuntu User or electronic subscription to Linux Pro Mag [15:49:20] * hypa7ia peers into the irc [15:49:24] <hypa7ia> I SEE NO PILE [15:49:32] <hypa7ia> akgraner: oh nice [15:49:53] * dinda hands hypa7ia her reading glasses [15:50:04] * hypa7ia pouts [15:50:12] <akgraner> Ubuntu notebook, pens, pins, putty [15:50:13] <akgraner> a lanyard [15:50:15] <dinda> akgraner posted a big nice pic recently [15:50:20] <akgraner> Also copy of Art of Community [15:50:22] <axolote> Wow, U-U or LPM subscriptions. Sweet. [15:50:36] <akgraner> Oh and Ubuntu Shirts [15:50:44] <Mamarok> akgraner: notebook as in small laptop or a paper notebook? [15:50:53] <hypa7ia> haha [15:50:54] <akgraner> paper notebook :-) [15:50:58] <hypa7ia> awww [15:50:59] <axolote> LOL. [15:51:22] <MichelleQ> putty? [15:51:22] <akgraner> I couldn't get a sponsor for 2 laptops [15:51:27] <akgraner> stress putty [15:51:30] <MichelleQ> aah [15:51:49] * MichelleQ could use some putty. [15:52:11] <akgraner> any other questions on the contest and why someone should enter? [15:52:27] <hypa7ia> nah i think we're clear on that now :) [15:53:02] <akgraner> :-) alrighty I am going to combine the next 2 topic b/c the guidelines are part of the blueprint [15:53:03] <akgraner> [TOPIC] review of what guidelines need to be written about the IRC channels (if any) [15:53:16] <akgraner> [TOPIC] What Blueprint Items still need to be completed [15:53:16] <akgraner> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-women.org/+spec/community-ubuntu-women-project [15:53:47] <akgraner> there are still a few items on the blueprint regarding the channel(s) that need to be ironed out.. [15:54:47] <akgraner> if you look on the blueprint you can see who has been tasked with those items.. for the sake of time - I will touch base with the folks (myself included) that still have some things to complete [15:55:22] <hypa7ia> sounds good [15:55:32] <akgraner> but in the meantime can you all take a look and if there is an item that you would like to help with or would like more information about please let that person know, or email the list, or email me, and we can get it done.. [15:55:32] * hypa7ia offers to help out with unassigned items [15:55:53] <akgraner> hypa7ia, thanks! [15:56:26] <MichelleQ> I'll do whatever I can to contribute... just not sure in which direction to head [15:56:54] <akgraner> I was hoping to get to the mentoring today.. [15:57:25] <akgraner> any objection to moving it to the next meeting? [15:57:30] <highvoltage> czajkowski: btw, why do meetings happen here and not in #ubuntu-meeting? [15:57:50] <akgraner> highvoltage, can we discuss that after the meeting ends [15:57:53] <highvoltage> ok [15:58:10] <axolote> no objection here. [15:58:15] <MichelleQ> akgraner: no objection [15:58:18] <hypa7ia> akgraner: let's have the next meeting soonish so that we can discuss mentoring sooner rather than later? [15:58:19] <axolote> looking forward to the mentoring topic. [15:58:46] <maiatoday> no objection [15:58:49] <akgraner> hypa7ia, I agree.. [15:59:20] <akgraner> it's an important topic and one that many people have expressed a renewed interest in [15:59:21] <akgraner> any objection to a meeting in 2 weeks then [15:59:28] <MichelleQ> none from me [15:59:46] <dinda> when can we expect your decision on the channels? [15:59:58] <dinda> two weeks is good [15:59:59] * hypa7ia is happy with sooner, too [16:00:03] <akgraner> dinda, tomorrow [16:00:12] <dinda> akgraner: :) you rock [16:00:27] <hypa7ia> tho that said 2 weeks gives us time to discuss mentoring on the list etc [16:01:13] <akgraner> oh can someone volunteer to take the emails from the list from now on and make sure the discussion topics are on the forums [16:01:33] <hypa7ia> sure [16:01:37] <MichelleQ> akgraner: sure [16:01:44] * hypa7ia defers to MichelleQ [16:01:53] * akgraner is not the best Forum Person.. I try but I know I miss things sometimes.... [16:02:05] <MichelleQ> hypa7ia: we'll tag-team [16:02:08] <MichelleQ> :D [16:02:13] <elky> isn't there a way to make the mailing list stuff appear on the forum, and vice versa? [16:02:27] <akgraner> so if a day passes after something shows up on the list and it's not on the forums... [16:02:40] <axolote> Out of curiosity, what does that entail? Simply cutting and pasting from the list to the forums? [16:02:53] <akgraner> axolote, yep :-) [16:02:56] <akgraner> pretty much [16:03:07] <MichelleQ> akgraner: general topics, yes? [16:03:12] <akgraner> yep [16:03:36] <akgraner> ok we are 3 mins over - any objections to ending the meeting? [16:03:41] <MichelleQ> nope [16:03:50] <elky> objections to it keeping going? me :P [16:03:55] <axolote> none here. [16:04:03] <akgraner> thanks everyone!! [16:04:06] <elky> ciao [16:04:09] <akgraner> #endmeeting Meeting ended.