1 11:04 < pleia2> ok, well we can get started a little 2 11:04 < pleia2> first is the time-sensitive stuff 3 11:05 < pleia2> then we'll talk a bit about project status and all that, so the agenda for this meeting: 4 11:05 < pleia2> 1. Mackenzie Morgan and I are doing Ubuntu Open Week sessions on the Ubuntu Women project, one discussion the issues and on discussing the solutions as we see them. 5 11:05 < pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek 6 11:06 < pleia2> 2. Ubuntu Developers Summit where we will be having session devoted to Ubuntu Women, and Laura is organizing a social dinner 7 11:06 < pleia2> 3. Project status, initiatives, etc 8 11:06 -!- issyl0 [n=isabell@freenode/community-coordinator/wikimedia.issyl0] has joined #ubuntu-women 9 11:06 < czajkowski> issyl0: welcome 10 11:06 < issyl0> Thanks czajkowski :) 11 11:07 < pleia2> so we can probably start with my session, I sent an email to the list a couple days ago: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-women/2009-October/002175.html 12 11:08 < pleia2> any thoughts? 13 11:08 < czajkowski> pleia2: nice to see your notes to get an idea of what's coming ahead in the session, thanks 14 11:09 < Venil> Actually, I noted one thing when I was convincing my female friends to switch to Ubuntu 15 11:09 < Venil> Women don't make the decisions in a one computer household 16 11:09 < Venil> in India 17 11:09 < pleia2> my notes from jaunty are here, if you scroll down the points 1-4 I think that will be the meat of maco's "Encouragement" portion: http://princessleia.com/uw/uw-uow.txt 18 11:09 < czajkowski> so I've a question re one of your points pleia2 When do we think or how do we know when " We would like to be able to dissolve the project in the future when more women are comfortable getting involved themselves. 19 11:10 < pleia2> czajkowski: I don't know, it would be fun to say "when involvement and use of Ubuntu is 50/50!" but I think the project will be *long* out-dated by that point 20 11:10 < czajkowski> nods 21 11:10 < pleia2> mostly I am just throwing that out there so people know we do intend to retire the project at some point 22 11:10 < czajkowski> ok makes sense 23 11:11 < pleia2> and that we have a goal :) 24 11:11 < czajkowski> I guess for me I'd like to look at the goals for the group 25 11:11 < Venil> nods 26 11:11 * gchick nods 27 11:11 < czajkowski> I don't normally joins "women" titled groups, but I have met great people in here 28 11:11 < pleia2> so we do have a RoadMap: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/RoadMap 29 11:11 < czajkowski> and was useful to me when I went to UDS last year to know another person going 30 11:12 < akgraner> pleia2, so in regards to your session and issues... 31 11:12 < Venil> The roadmap is cool 32 11:13 < pleia2> Venil: thanks for your comments re: women in India, if you can stick around maybe we can talk about it some later in the meeting? 33 11:13 < Venil> Makes the goals clear 34 11:13 < Venil> Yes 35 11:13 < akgraner> how do we acknowledge socio/political aspects of issues without becoming a socio/political group... 36 11:14 < akgraner> I think it's important to acknowledge the greater issue without becoming know for only that.. does that make sense? 37 11:14 < pleia2> well, since we believe women should be equal and this is not a universally held ideal, I think we kind of are a socio/political group 38 11:14 < Venil> I think the reason for forming this group itself is socio/political 39 11:14 < Venil> I mean social and political expectations/roles 40 11:15 < pleia2> but at the core, that's the only belief we really share (I think) 41 11:15 < Venil> True 42 11:15 < akgraner> yes, but how do we have fun, and concentrate on Ubuntu if we are fighting on every front... 43 11:16 -!- christel [i=christel@freenode/staff/exherbo.christel] has joined #ubuntu-women 44 11:16 < Venil> The same way we have fun and concentrate on our work everyday, as women 45 11:16 < Venil> I guess most of us know how 46 11:16 < pleia2> well, as far as I'm concerned project-wise, the playing offence is only one of four major things this project does 47 11:16 < pleia2> offense 48 11:17 < pleia2> sure there are things that come up that bother us, and they are very touchy subjects 49 11:17 < pleia2> but day to day the core of this project is providing this safe channel to talk to other women, working on our interviews series, encouraging each other 50 11:17 < Venil> rapid nods 51 11:17 < akgraner> cool 52 11:18 < pleia2> unfortunately that stuff is "boring" and doesn't make for good headlines :) 53 11:18 < akgraner> :-) 54 11:18 < pleia2> I am not sure how to make it so, aside from trying to talk/blog about the encouraging stuff we do more 55 11:20 < czajkowski> hmmm 56 11:20 < pleia2> so I guess my issues session is kinda "here is a link to incidents" 57 11:20 < czajkowski> well I hate to be awkard here 58 11:20 < czajkowski> but I for one dont want to be a social/politcal group 59 11:20 < czajkowski> maybe that's just e 60 11:20 < czajkowski> *me 61 11:21 < pleia2> then "we do encouragement too, why? because girls aren't encouraged in tech when they are young so tend to be insecure, it's hard entering an environment as a minority, it's nice to see other women around.." 62 11:21 < pleia2> czajkowski: I didn't mean we intended to be, I mean by the very nature of the team we kinda of *are* 63 11:21 < czajkowski> hmm 64 11:21 < pleia2> we want to promote getting more women involved, that's a social goal 65 11:22 < gchick> I suspect that people also have different ideas of what constitutes "political" -- for me, frex, daily work and encouragement *are* political, but for someone for whom political doesn't sound like a good thing, I suspect it reads as something else. 66 11:22 < pleia2> gchick: yeah, I think you're right 67 11:22 < czajkowski> yes 68 11:22 < czajkowski> this is very true 69 11:22 * akgraner nods 70 11:22 < czajkowski> to me it comes across as harsh 71 11:22 < Venil> gchick: You've hit the nail on the head 72 11:23 < czajkowski> and not something I would ever want to be associated with 73 11:23 < pleia2> czajkowski: what do you see this project as? 74 11:23 < czajkowski> as a gateway to meet fellow female memembers in IT 75 11:23 < Venil> Yes, 76 11:24 < Venil> But not necessarily in IT 77 11:24 < czajkowski> technology 78 11:24 < czajkowski> ubuntu 79 11:24 < pleia2> czajkowski: and our encouragement initiatives? good/bad? 80 11:24 < czajkowski> I mena I can just as easily join other ubuntu channels and meet fellow ubuntu folks in ther, but I joined here to meet more females. 81 11:24 < Venil> I don't know anything about software tech, for example 82 11:25 < akgraner> I see this a group to use as way to encourage other people (especially women) to become involved in Ubuntu 83 11:25 < czajkowski> akgraner: yes 84 11:25 < Venil> Basically, I wanted to give something back to Ubuntu 85 11:25 < czajkowski> pleia2: what do you mean sorry? 86 11:25 < Venil> As if I used proprietary software, I would be paying them 87 11:26 < pleia2> czajkowski: I guess in my view our socio/political viewpoint is "we believe women are equal to men and we seek to encourage more women to use/contribute to ubuntu" 88 11:26 < pleia2> that's not a viewpoint shared by everyone 89 11:27 < akgraner> pleia2, I don't disagree with that statement... 90 11:27 < czajkowski> neither do I. 91 11:27 < czajkowski> I dont think anyone does 92 11:27 < pleia2> ok 93 11:27 < pleia2> well that's the only reason I said that we're kinda a socio/political group 94 11:28 < pleia2> all our actions stem from that belief and goal 95 11:28 < Venil> Of course 96 11:28 < czajkowski> nods, 97 11:29 < czajkowski> so I think we do try to do that with getting more females in ubuntu in more places, pleia2 is a great example of that 98 11:29 < czajkowski> the ubuntu women series is great 99 11:29 < pleia2> yeah, I really think we need to focus on these things 100 11:30 < pleia2> I guess my Issues thing is just outlining why women need a group to achieve these goals 101 11:30 < czajkowski> I think we should be focusing on the good side of things 102 11:30 < pleia2> of course, that's why maco's whole presentation discusses the good side 103 11:30 < czajkowski> I mention to folks about UW and it doesnt seem to have a positive feel for some people 104 11:30 < pleia2> mine just explains why the situation exists 105 11:30 < czajkowski> *nods* 106 11:31 < pleia2> there are people out there who still say "women can get involved, they just don't want to! 107 11:31 < pleia2> so I guess that's the crowd I'm speaking to 108 11:31 < Venil> I know 109 11:31 < pleia2> we *want* to, but barriers $1, $2 and $3 exist and only a small % get over those 110 11:31 < pleia2> by themselves 111 11:32 < akgraner> gotcha... but I thing another issue as women is acknowledging it is ok to differ on what we think the issues are.. without attacking each other for feeling that way... 112 11:32 -!- lizzard [firstname.lastname@example.org] has joined #ubuntu-women 113 11:32 < pleia2> akgraner: *nod* 114 11:33 < pleia2> maco is having a hard time getting online at the coffee shop :\ 115 11:33 < Venil> oh bad 116 11:33 < Solarion> I bet their ap is busted 117 11:33 < czajkowski> akgraner: that's a big one for me 118 11:34 < pleia2> I tried to communicate that last month in the shuttleworth thread on the list 119 11:34 < Solarion> e.g. fakey half-proxying dns 120 11:34 < akgraner> pleia2, your response was awesome! 121 11:34 * Solarion ran into that a few times 122 11:34 < pleia2> akgraner: thanks :) 123 11:34 < pleia2> for those who didn't see: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-women/2009-October/002134.html 124 11:34 < czajkowski> We need to be a lot more tolerant of one anothers different opinions, as we have a large community in Ubuntu we also have diverse cultures. 125 11:35 < czajkowski> pleia2: yes you handled that very well 126 11:35 < czajkowski> and definately expressed how I felt , so thanks 127 11:35 < Venil> It was very clear and to the point, but yet not offensive 128 11:36 < pleia2> czajkowski: good, sounds like we're all on the same page here then 129 11:36 < gchick> also, it added "our Path of Being Awesome" to my vocab ;) 130 11:36 < pleia2> hehe 131 11:36 < Venil> hmmm... Aren't we already awesome? 132 11:37 < pleia2> Venil: of course! 133 11:37 < akgraner> and I think we need to make sure we acknowledge the contribution of other groups (female) without downplaying the worth they bring to the table, even if it isn't the way I or someone else would handle the same situation... 134 11:37 < czajkowski> It's always good to hear another side of a story, but if I disagree with the viewpoint I don't berate the person who has explained it or tell their opion is crap tbh. I think that's something this *channel* needs to work on 135 11:37 < pleia2> czajkowski: I agree 136 11:37 -!- woowoo [email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-women 137 11:38 < akgraner> +1 138 11:38 * Venil claps 139 11:38 < pleia2> I like that we can discuss things here, but I think sometimes it gets heated and personal, and that's not good 140 11:38 < czajkowski> so I really would like to see how we could look at that in the channel, any thoughts? 141 11:38 < czajkowski> pleia2: aye making this personal is not the way to go forward 142 11:38 < czajkowski> it's of no help for anyone 143 11:38 * akgraner nods 144 11:39 < pleia2> even when it's not personal, people can sometimes feel attacked 145 11:39 < czajkowski> yes 146 11:39 < pleia2> so a /msg from time to time saying "I disagree, but you are still great!" is nice 147 11:39 < Venil> Good Idea 148 11:39 < akgraner> those are really some of the best discussions I have had with people... 149 11:40 < czajkowski> or a pm saying I'm not attacking you, I apprecaite we have different opions on it, healthy discussions are good for everyone. 150 11:40 -!- MsMaco [n=maco@ubuntu/member/macogw] has joined #ubuntu-women 151 11:40 < Venil> Maybe point out a time when we were in agreement 152 11:40 < pleia2> czajkowski: yeah 153 11:40 < MsMaco> ok, FINALLY online. the cafe i'm in just told me to use their neighbor's wifi 154 11:40 < czajkowski> we learn more and take away something from the discussion. 155 11:40 * Venil applauds 156 11:40 < pleia2> welcome MsMaco :) 157 11:40 < akgraner> I don't like to put my disagreements or neg stuff "on the street" 158 11:41 < akgraner> MsMaco, yay!! welcome!!! 159 11:41 < pleia2> I am not sure how to implement this though 160 11:41 < czajkowski> akgraner: but sometimes, you need to 161 11:41 < akgraner> czajkowski, yeah I know 162 11:41 < czajkowski> but in a well put non offensive manner 163 11:41 < akgraner> and I do when I *have* to 164 11:41 < czajkowski> pleia2: so I think some sort of mail to the list 165 11:42 < czajkowski> or annoucemnt on the irc channel 166 11:42 * pleia2 nods 167 11:42 < czajkowski> explaining this 168 11:42 < czajkowski> it's an issue for this channel, as I've not seen it elsewhere 169 11:42 -!- JSG [n=GC@unaffiliated/geekchick/x-389545837] has joined #ubuntu-women 170 11:42 < czajkowski> we need to be a lot more tolerant in here 171 11:42 < pleia2> it happens in diversity channels of all types 172 11:42 < akgraner> maybe we can blog about it...(which I have been lax about doing).... 173 11:42 < pleia2> but yeah, it's not an issue in other ubuntu channels 174 11:43 < JSG> Psh. Diversity. If you're not a chick, leave. 175 11:43 * JSG hides 176 11:43 < JSG> lol 177 11:43 < czajkowski> pleia2: aye where in other channels you can have a lot more discussions/debates going, but there seems to be a lot more acceptance of difference of opionion 178 11:43 < pleia2> JSG: there are a lot of really great men in this project 179 11:43 < Solarion> JSG: note how you're the only one laughing 180 11:43 < JSG> pleia2, please. I was being the devils advocate. 181 11:43 < JSG> It's what I am good at. 182 11:43 < pleia2> ok 183 11:44 * JSG goes back to snort 184 11:44 < Solarion> good plan 185 11:44 < czajkowski> I mean I'm no angel I accept that, but I have seem pm's from ppl giving out to others for me not agreeing with them in here and asking why I didnt shut up. that's not healthy 186 11:44 < pleia2> czajkowski: yeah, for some reason foss feminism stuff is *really* a huge issue, it gets heated and violent all over the place 187 11:44 < pleia2> blogs, irc, even in real life :\ 188 11:45 < MsMaco> i invited wgrant in here a few days ago and he was afraid he'd be kicked 189 11:45 < Solarion> The problem is everyone has a plausible chain toward feeling the victim 190 11:45 < czajkowski> I invited issyl0 in here tonight to show her what goes on. 191 11:45 < Solarion> (at least, that's one aspect of the problem, as I see it. :) 192 11:45 < czajkowski> she's new and young, and nice to get a new opinion 193 11:46 < Venil> Always good to get a fresh look 194 11:46 < czajkowski> see I think the haveing the -women name in it. confuses people and also puts people off joining 195 11:47 < Solarion> That is probably very true 196 11:47 < pleia2> ok, so maybe such a doc sent to everyone has to cover: 1. in general being more open and tolerant, less coming off as attacking 2. pausing from time to time to make sure people don't feel upset/attacked, reassure that we're friends 197 11:47 < Venil> That's true, but that's the best way to indicate that this is a community for women 198 11:47 < Venil> Sorry, I was talking about the community name 199 11:47 < MsMaco> i think it would be a bit disappointing if, like the DW channel, we ended up with the channel being 3/4 male, though 200 11:48 < akgraner> also.. right now there is such a neg perception when you just say Ubuntu Women...:-/ I want people men and women to see the value in the channel... 201 11:48 < Solarion> why would htat be disappointing? 202 11:48 < czajkowski> MsMaco: the goal at some point is that this channel will disalove anyway....... 203 11:48 < MsMaco> czajkowski: i know 204 11:49 < MsMaco> but hopefully due to there being enough women that we dont need it anymore, not from being overrun with men :P 205 11:49 < gchick> MsMaco +1 206 11:49 * Solarion feels somewhat alienated now 207 11:49 * pleia2 hugs Solarion 208 11:50 * Venil repeats hug 209 11:50 < czajkowski> MsMaco: true, but can you see how the name in itself may not be inviting to others? 210 11:50 < czajkowski> Solarion: awwww 211 11:50 < Venil> Yes 212 11:50 < czajkowski> I know of folks who WILL NOT JOIN women named groups 213 11:50 < MsMaco> czajkowski: yes, i've had a handful of guys go "huh? we're allowed in there?" and im like "well james and mdz haven't been kicked yet..." 214 11:50 < czajkowski> so you could be losing out on them being active in here? 215 11:50 < Solarion> The point is rather to get people to fix the problem, which requires discussion, which requires particpants 216 11:50 < MsMaco> aye, seele won't join women's groups 217 11:51 < Solarion> another way to view a high-percentage-men feminishm-themed group is that they're willing to engage and learn and improve the situation 218 11:51 < czajkowski> aye there is I'm sure more than 1 women who has not joined here due to the name 219 11:51 < Venil> Ok, I have to leave for 5 mins 220 11:51 < Venil> Will be back 221 11:51 < czajkowski> and also the perception of the group 222 11:51 < pleia2> well, I don't think changing the group name is an option 223 11:51 < MsMaco> Solarion: thats true 224 11:51 < pleia2> and I'm not sure what we'd call it if we did 225 11:51 < akgraner> Venil, thanks for joining in!!! 226 11:51 < czajkowski> Solarion: well put 227 11:52 < pleia2> since our goal *is* to encourage women 228 11:52 < IdleOne> #ubuntu-people 229 11:52 < pleia2> IdleOne: that doesn't reflect our premise 230 11:52 < czajkowski> nice 231 11:52 < Solarion> IdleOne: problem is that it's no longer feminism-themed. :) 232 11:52 < Solarion> good ideal 233 11:52 < Solarion> there's nothing wrong with the group name; it's for discussing women in ubuntu 234 11:52 < czajkowski> what would folks think about renaming the group/.channel? Do you think we'd get more activity ???? 235 11:52 < MsMaco> er...aren't we getting a little OT? bit late to change the name :P 236 11:53 < Solarion> just like #ubuntu-motu is for muts and -kernel is for the kernel. :) 237 11:53 < IdleOne> the groups is about women being treated equally correct? but some women and men don't want to join a -women group for whatever reasons they may have 238 11:53 < Solarion> MsMaco: is the problem with men in the group to have a safe place to get away? 239 11:53 < czajkowski> Solarion: well it's someothing we could change as we;re excluding people who do not want to join a specific women only named group? 240 11:54 < pleia2> czajkowski: what should we call it then? 241 11:54 < Solarion> if so, then you might want to make a -womeonly group with invites only 242 11:54 < czajkowski> IdleOne: +1 243 11:54 < Solarion> (I can totally see the utility of such a group, sadly) 244 11:54 < pleia2> (also I agree with MsMaco that we're getting way off topic here, I hightly doubt we'll change the name) 245 11:54 < czajkowski> pleia2: :( 246 11:54 < czajkowski> ok 247 11:54 < Solarion> czajkowski: I dunno; if they can't join a group with "women" in the name, I think they have some learning to do 248 11:54 < gchick> all, I'm going to have to head out -- wish I could stay longer 249 11:55 -!- gchick [firstname.lastname@example.org] has quit ["Leaving"] 250 11:55 < akgraner> crap was going to let them know logs would be available and thank them for joining... 251 11:55 < akgraner> wish I could type faster 252 11:55 < akgraner> :-/ 253 11:56 < pleia2> gchick comes here frequently :) 254 11:56 < IdleOne> well speaking from a mans point of view I had some reservations about coming to this channel at first. I thought that maybe it was women only and did not want to seem like I was "hunting" for women. then I saw that there were also other men in here and decided to check it out 255 11:56 < akgraner> yes I know.. it's a habit thanking people..:-) 256 11:56 < pleia2> IdleOne: did you bother to read the website? 257 11:56 < pleia2> we explain in *many* places what our goals are, and that we welcome everyone, men and women 258 11:57 < pleia2> if someone chooses not to read that, I am not sure what we can do 259 11:57 < IdleOne> pleia2: after I read the website and saw you mention the channel a few times I decided to check it out. I felt "safer" knowing that you were here 260 11:57 < Venil> akgraner: Thanks 261 11:57 < akgraner> pleia2, we need to find away to get the website out there, other than just in the topic... 262 11:57 < pleia2> akgraner: out where? it's on the forums, on the mailing list, on every blog post I do about the project.... 263 11:58 < akgraner> I say we, meaning *me* I guess.. 264 11:58 < akgraner> pleia2, you do a great job of getting it out there... 265 11:58 < pleia2> the first line on our website: Ubuntu-Women is a team functioning under Ubuntu to provide a platform and encouragement for women to contribute to Ubuntu-Linux, a Debian based free and open-source GNU/Linux software. Our main role will be along the lines of supplementing and being the stepping stone toward the larger Ubuntu-Linux world. Membership is open to all. 266 11:58 < akgraner> but I still know people who just found out about it within the last 2 weeks 267 11:58 < pleia2> maybe we should make it bigger? bolder? 268 11:58 < akgraner> and they have been in the community a long time 269 11:59 < pleia2> ("all" is already in bold) 270 11:59 < Venil> This community is not really easy to find 271 11:59 < Venil> I mean, I found it after a specific search for ubuntu + women 272 11:59 < MsMaco> Venil: people seem to find it in the channel list just fine when they wanna pick up chicks 273 11:59 < Venil> It didn't come up anytime I was searching for help 274 11:59 < Venil> Maybe you have to want to pick up chicks? 275 12:00 < akgraner> I mean just getting them to the website... I have sorta been lax on doing that... me takes responsibility to do more on that front 276 12:00 < Solarion> MsMaco: I thought thats what farm supply stores were for. :) 277 12:00 < Venil> Hopefully not 278 12:00 * Venil laughs 279 12:00 < pleia2> akgraner: I guess I'm just trying to figure out what we're missing, if people make assumptions about "ubuntu women" from the name and don't bother looking at our /topic, forums, mailing list, website, wiki - where are we supposed to inform them? 280 12:01 < pleia2> should we be called ubuntu-women-but-everyone-can-join-the-project-its-fun-and-we-encourage-women ? :P 281 12:01 < MsMaco> LOL 282 12:01 < IdleOne> lol 283 12:01 < akgraner> pleia2, me too... I am right there with you... I am trying to figure it out as well 284 12:01 < Venil> That's so short! 285 12:01 < IdleOne> I would nee to add that to auto-join for sure 286 12:01 < pleia2> hehe 287 12:01 < Solarion> heh 288 12:02 < Solarion> (farm supply stores, because they stock baby chickens... :) 289 12:02 < MsMaco> by the way, i still like the #ubuntu-hotchicks full of eliza bots that record who joins it and automatically bans them from here 290 12:02 < akgraner> pleia2, so I am looking at the discussion so far.. and making notes for me and what I can do... 291 12:02 < MsMaco> er, i like that idea 292 12:02 < Solarion> heh 293 12:03 < pleia2> akgraner: great :) 294 12:03 < IdleOne> MsMaco: that is entrapment :P 295 12:03 < akgraner> so far I have tolerance as the number 1 goal 296 12:03 < Venil> Why? 297 12:03 < Solarion> akgraner: within tolerances? :) 298 12:03 < akgraner> talking about the positive benefits and why this channel is needed... 299 12:03 < Venil> Making the goals of the community clear is #2 300 12:04 < akgraner> channel/group 301 12:04 < czajkowski> tolerance and respect for others opions in here is a big one tbh. 302 12:04 < akgraner> czajkowski, yes 303 12:04 < pleia2> yeah, so I think we should brainstorm some on this 304 12:04 < pleia2> 11:47:21 < pleia2> ok, so maybe such a doc sent to everyone has to cover: 1. in general being more open and tolerant, less coming off as attacking 2. pausing from time to time to make sure people don't feel upset/attacked, reassure that we're friends 305 12:04 < pleia2> is there more than that at this point?? 306 12:04 < pleia2> -? 307 12:05 < czajkowski> thats pretty good aye 308 12:05 < Venil> I think the people who have been here for some time will know 309 12:05 < akgraner> I think that is awesome! 310 12:05 < Venil> the things that are really sensitive 311 12:05 < Venil> Maybe you could mention them somewhere 312 12:05 < pleia2> ok, I'll flesh this out a bit and share with a couple people - then we can push it out to the ops and the list 313 12:06 < pleia2> probably include it in IrcGuidelines 314 12:07 < akgraner> gotta luv the sound pf progress... we have action items... 315 12:07 < pleia2> hehe 316 12:08 < czajkowski> so I guess also what would folks like discussed at UDS 317 12:08 < czajkowski> there are a few of us going 318 12:08 < czajkowski> but having more views from the members would be great, and also encourge remote participation 319 12:08 < akgraner> remote participation ROCKS!!! 320 12:08 < IdleOne> I think what this group should be pushing towards and this is just one persons opinion of course. Working towards more of an equality stance and less of more rights for the minority stance. Unless I don't fully understand the purpose of ubuntu-women 321 12:08 < czajkowski> akgraner: it sure does!!!!! 322 12:08 < pleia2> are we actually going ot have a session, or just meetup for drinks? 323 12:09 < pleia2> I actually don't quite know how things work at UDS 324 12:09 < akgraner> pleia2, sessions 325 12:09 < akgraner> they are working on the schedule now 326 12:09 < czajkowski> aye session 327 12:09 < pleia2> ok, great :) 328 12:09 < czajkowski> at last uds we had a round table 329 12:09 < czajkowski> and it was last min 330 12:09 < czajkowski> so this time it would be ncie to go in with some goals and thoughts 331 12:09 < pleia2> so as this discussion today shows, we need to improve our image - maybe talk about how this can be done? 332 12:10 < akgraner> +1 333 12:10 < czajkowski> +1 334 12:11 < MsMaco> and at last uds i was like "Roundtable...how does this work???" 335 12:11 < pleia2> maybe see if anyone else has ideas like our interview series on how to do more encouragement, if we feel it's needed 336 12:11 < akgraner> I'll see if I can get the times before UDS for the UW session and get it to the list so people can plan to attend remotely 337 12:11 < pleia2> akgraner: great! 338 12:12 < czajkowski> akgraner: ah we will thats this week at some stage 339 12:12 < czajkowski> we know about a week in advance 340 12:12 < Venil> ok 341 12:12 < Venil> My connection is giving problem 342 12:12 < Venil> problems 343 12:14 < pleia2> akgraner: can you start a thread on the mailing list about possible discussions for our session? and let people know it can be attended remotely 344 12:14 < akgraner> should I send out the things I found that made remote participation easier... 345 12:14 < pleia2> yes, that too! 346 12:14 < czajkowski> akgraner: yes 347 12:14 < akgraner> yep..can do 348 12:14 < issyl0> Hmm, I've been following this discussion, thanks to czajkowski who told me about it, and it is very interesting.. makes me think I might get involved somehow, being female and a teenager. :) 349 12:14 < czajkowski> that would be great 350 12:14 < pleia2> issyl0: welcome :) 351 12:14 * Venil claps for issyl0 352 12:15 < akgraner> issyl0, welcome!! \o/ 353 12:15 < Venil> I'm new here too! 354 12:15 < pleia2> ok, so I have one more thing for our agenda 355 12:15 < MsMaco> hey, yay for teenagers! 356 12:15 < issyl0> pleia2, akgraner, Venil, thanks :) 357 12:15 < Venil> Seconded 358 12:15 < pleia2> our wiki is a problem :( 359 12:15 < czajkowski> :( 360 12:15 < issyl0> And yeah, MsMaco! 361 12:15 < pleia2> it's hosted on one of canonical's loco servers 362 12:15 < Venil> ok.... 363 12:15 < akgraner> pleia2, there you go with the "w" word again....:-P 364 12:16 < pleia2> they haven't updated it in ages, havne't put antispam stuff in, have been saying for MONTHS that they intended to upgrade it 365 12:16 < Venil> Totally at sea here 366 12:16 < pleia2> we've had to lock it down to only a couple editors 367 12:16 < Venil> uh oh 368 12:16 < pleia2> Venil: wiki.ubuntu-women.org 369 12:16 < MsMaco> pleia2: so....typical canonical sysadmins 370 12:16 < czajkowski> aye we had similar on -ie 371 12:16 < Venil> No, is the w word wiki? 372 12:16 < Venil> Ok then 373 12:16 < pleia2> so I think we need to decide whether we keep waiting and limping along with this 374 12:16 < czajkowski> we're considering moving it off the server 375 12:16 < pleia2> or move back to wiki.ubuntu.com 376 12:17 < akgraner> yeah wiki's and I (oil and water)... 377 12:17 < pleia2> wiki.ubuntu.com gives us the advantage of being searchable by the rest of the ubuntu project :) 378 12:17 < czajkowski> which may help our group 379 12:17 < pleia2> right 380 12:17 < pleia2> but the migration will be painful, old links will break 381 12:17 -!- Venil_ [i=3b5c332f@gateway/web/freenode/x-uowfalxqfatkqmow] has joined #ubuntu-women 382 12:18 < Venil_> My connection is killing me 383 12:18 < akgraner> pleia2, what do we need to do? 384 12:18 < pleia2> I am leaning toward moving it, in spite of the pain :) 385 12:18 < czajkowski> pleia2: can we help? 386 12:18 < Venil_> Yes? 387 12:18 < akgraner> even though I joke about wiki's I can help do what ever 388 12:19 < pleia2> yep, there will be a lot of manual stuff 389 12:19 < Venil_> Manual laborer ready here 390 12:19 -!- Venil [i=3b5c332f@gateway/web/freenode/x-ihvtuyvjreieqrtx] has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds] 391 12:19 < pleia2> going through the whole existing wiki, copying it into wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWomen 392 12:19 < pleia2> and the wiki syntax changed! so updating that 393 12:20 < pleia2> I think it's just links that changed 394 12:20 < czajkowski> perhaps this could be a mini project 395 12:20 < czajkowski> break it into sections 396 12:20 < pleia2> yeah, that's a good idea 397 12:20 < czajkowski> so we're not all working on it at one time 398 12:20 * pleia2 nods 399 12:20 < czajkowski> and also doesnt get let not getting done or done by 2 people 400 12:20 -!- akk [email@example.com] has joined #ubuntu-women 401 12:20 < czajkowski> so if a mail gets sent 402 12:20 < akgraner> maybe some one can set up the pages..and make sure the names are correct 403 12:20 < czajkowski> listing the areas 404 12:21 < pleia2> I think it was about 3 years ago that we moved from wiki.u.c to wiki.u-w.org, I did the process myself 405 12:21 < czajkowski> and assinging folks by surname to an area we could get it done faster 406 12:21 < pleia2> it was a chore then :) and the wiki has grown a lot 407 12:21 < akgraner> pleia2, ouch... 408 12:21 < Venil_> the community has also grown, so you have more hands 409 12:21 < Venil_> to help 410 12:22 < pleia2> yep :) 411 12:22 < pleia2> so first - do we agree that moving to wiki.u.c is a good idea? 412 12:22 < czajkowski> +1 413 12:22 < akgraner> +1 414 12:22 < pleia2> we can ask the canonical sysadmins to forward wiki.ubuntu-women.org subdomain to the new wiki 415 12:22 < pleia2> so it won't be *too* horrible 416 12:23 < MsMaco> how many months will it take them to setup a redirect? 417 12:23 < akgraner> pleia2, one question.. why was it moved to begin with? 418 12:23 < pleia2> MsMaco: i'll just nag jpds until he does it :) 419 12:23 < pleia2> this is easy, the wiki upgrade is hard 420 12:23 < MsMaco> pleia2: do you have a rt # for the wiki upgrade? 421 12:23 < pleia2> MsMaco: nope :\ 422 12:24 < MsMaco> was one ever filed? 423 12:24 < issyl0> pleia2, oh I know jpds, I met him a couple of months ago. 424 12:24 < pleia2> Susana and I filed some about the spam, which was replied with "we're upgrading soon" 425 12:24 < pleia2> issyl0: he's great :) 426 12:24 < issyl0> Yeah :) 427 12:25 -!- HappY_Yogurt [n=Robert@foo.stahl.nu] has joined #Ubuntu-Women 428 12:25 < pleia2> anyone else have any thoughts about moving the wiki? any -1s? 429 12:26 < akgraner> pleia2, why was it moved from w.u.c 3 years ogo.. 430 12:26 < akgraner> was it due to consolidating everything back then.. or did I misunderstand? 431 12:26 < pleia2> akgraner: because we could, we had a shiny new domain name and wanted to use it 432 12:27 < akgraner> pleia2, hehe ok... just wondering...:-) 433 12:27 < akgraner> pleia2, I like shiny.. 434 12:27 < pleia2> wiki.ubuntu-women.org looked better than wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWomen I guess 435 12:27 < Venil_> It does 436 12:27 < Venil_> What are we going to change it to? 437 12:28 < pleia2> well, we'd put it back to wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWomen and point wiki.ubuntu-women.org there 438 12:28 < Venil_> ok 439 12:29 < pleia2> ok, I think we probably want to move forward with this unless canonical surprises us in the next few weeks with an upgrade 440 12:30 < pleia2> I'll start putting a plan together (but this month is INSANE! so it might be put on the back burner for a couple weeks) 441 12:30 < czajkowski> ok 442 12:30 < czajkowski> but do mail the list 443 12:31 < Venil_> Fine 444 12:31 < czajkowski> and get EVEYONE involved 445 12:31 < pleia2> will do :) 446 12:31 < czajkowski> one final thing, re UDS~ 447 12:31 < czajkowski> we're going for dinner on Wednesday night 448 12:31 < pleia2> ok cool 449 12:31 < czajkowski> if anyone has any suggestion for where we should go 450 12:31 < czajkowski> let either myself or akgraner know please 451 12:32 < czajkowski> so we can get the word out 452 12:32 < czajkowski> is there a texas loco ? 453 12:32 < pleia2> czajkowski: oh, god, dont even get me started on the texas loco 454 12:32 < czajkowski> ohhhh 455 12:32 < czajkowski> okie dokie 456 12:32 < pleia2> they have like 6 tiny regional locos, no centralization, I am working with them :) 457 12:32 < pleia2> one of those regions is dallas though, so we can probably ask them 458 12:33 < czajkowski> lovely jubbly 459 12:33 < pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DallasTeam 460 12:34 < akgraner> czajkowski, a couple of the canonical folks live in that area want me to ask them? 461 12:34 < czajkowski> that might be an idea 462 12:34 < czajkowski> rather than wednesday trying to figure out where to go 463 12:34 < czajkowski> at least have an idea 464 12:35 < czajkowski> I've added it to the social list on ~UDS wiki 465 12:35 < HappY_Yogurt> So what do you guys think about windows 7? 466 12:35 < akgraner> ok.. I'll see what I can find out.. maybe we can decide the week prior 467 12:35 < pleia2> czajkowski: wanna follow up on your list thread so people on the list know it'll be wednesday too? 468 12:36 < czajkowski> yarp will do 469 12:36 < pleia2> thanks akgraner! 470 12:36 < czajkowski> akgraner: yup 471 12:37 < akgraner> :-) 472 12:37 < IdleOne> HappY_Yogurt: according to the tv commercials, Windows 7 was my idea. 473 12:37 < Venil_> What? 474 12:37 < IdleOne> I don't remember having the idea but heh 475 12:37 < pleia2> alright, any other items for the meeting? 476 12:39 < akgraner> how another meeting in about a month 477 12:39 < pleia2> same bat time, same bat channel? :) 478 12:39 < czajkowski> yeah I think try and increase the irc meeting 479 12:39 < czajkowski> maybe put out a poll 480 12:39 < akgraner> sure.. 481 12:39 < pleia2> 1st sunday at 16:00 UTC 482 12:39 < czajkowski> now for next monnth 483 12:39 < akgraner> sounds good to me 484 12:39 * issyl0 is wondering if there is an ubuntu Surrey (UK) group... probably not, from my searches, in fact there is nothing around here really, shame! And no I'm not creating one, before anyone suggests it, sorry 485 12:39 < Venil_> ok 486 12:39 < czajkowski> as it's kinda quiet in here and I know there are a lotta folks who are chatty 487 12:40 < czajkowski> issyl0: ask popey where the nearest one to you is 488 12:40 < popey> issyl0: there's not really any regional ubuntu thing in the surrey area 489 12:41 < issyl0> czajkowski, well I'm part of Surrey and Hampshire LUGs which popey is also a part of, but they are full of men over 40 mostly and there are only like 3 women who don't turn up very often 490 12:41 < issyl0> Oh, I didn't realise you were here! 491 12:41 < popey> :) 492 12:41 < popey> I'm everywhere 493 12:41 < issyl0> Hmm! 494 12:41 < issyl0> It seems like it actually now! 495 12:41 < Solarion> issyl0: Is the situation a bit surreyal? :) 496 12:41 < popey> issyl0: are you thinking of an Ubuntu Surrey group or an Ubuntu Women Surrey group? 497 12:41 < MsMaco> issyl0: sounds like LUGs here 498 12:42 < MsMaco> the only other woman who ever showed up stopped :( 499 12:42 < Solarion> :( 500 12:42 < popey> to be fair one of the reasons some of the women in the lug dont turn up is because they live well outside the surrey area 501 12:43 < issyl0> popey, well it would be good to get more women and maybe young people involved too, but not exclusively for women as that would be too small a group at the moment. 502 12:43 < popey> I suspect the female attendance of LUGs in the UK pretty much accurately represents the proportion of Women in Open Source and IT in general, which of course sucks 503 12:43 < issyl0> popey, heh :) 504 12:43 < popey> i completely agree issyl0 505 12:43 < issyl0> Solarion, very funny :P 506 12:43 < Solarion> issyl0: I do what I can. :) 507 12:44 < issyl0> </sarcasm> :P 508 12:44 < Solarion> yeah, puns get no love. :( 509 12:44 < issyl0> brb 510 12:45 < Solarion> (it was also written before I saw there was an actual situation; was aimed at the question about LUGs in Surrey) 511 12:45 < issyl0> Oh and by the way, for the record, whenever I use the term 'guys', it's the non gender specific way ;) 512 12:45 < Solarion> now it's a classic case of foot-in-mouth disease 513 12:45 < akgraner> pleia2, thanks for facilitating the meeting... 514 12:45 < issyl0> Solarion, oh right don't worry :) 515 12:45 < Solarion> issyl0: "y'all" works, aside from the sourthern aspect 516 12:45 < Solarion> worrying is what I do. I think I got it from Mom. 517 12:45 < MsMaco> i use folks 518 12:45 < MsMaco> got that from hypa7ia 519 12:46 < Venil_> How about people? 520 12:46 < Venil_> or everyone/ 521 12:46 < Solarion> peeps 522 12:46 < Solarion> suppose that might resonate with "chicks" so perhaps not 523 12:46 < MsMaco> lets just avoid fellows/fellas 524 12:47 < pleia2> akgraner: thanks for coming! 525 12:47 < pleia2> thanks to everyone :) 526 12:47 < czajkowski> yup! 527 12:47 < Venil_> Thanks everyone 528 12:47 < Solarion> wewt? 529 12:47 < czajkowski> nice discussions today 530 12:47 < Venil_> yes 531 12:47 < akgraner> indeed.. great discussions 532 12:47 < Solarion> ah, there was a meeting. I thought there was an unexpectedly large amount of traffic 533 12:48 < Solarion> :) 534 12:48 * Solarion is ignernt 535 12:48 < pleia2> oh yes, meeting officially over :)
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